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Author Topic: Languages  (Read 20172 times)

Drakilian

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Languages
« on: January 09, 2015, 06:04:37 pm »

Languages and Language Groups

As you can see from the descriptions in this chapter, there is a rather broad range of languages in Transylvania. Serfs speaking Vlach, pea-sants speaking Slav, Magyar-speaking Hungarians and German-speaking Saxons can offer many complications to a chronicle if the characterscannot converse freely with them.Some Storytellers may choose to downplay this aspect of the game. After all, the number of Cainites and ghouls in the story ensures that if afew characters can’t hear what a local Transylvanian is saying, someone can translate for everyone else. Storytellers who prefer a dark fanta-sy feel to the game may prefer this “Hollywood” approach to foreign languages. Players who stress realism, however, may find that this ideastretches credulity. Thus, a few optional rules should help represent the role of languages in the campaign. Customize them as you see fit.

Each dot in Linguistics represents one language a character speaks (but doesn’t necessarily write – this is the Dark Medieval world, after all),and a character is considered to be absolutely fluent in his native tongue (which is declared during character creation). As such, the Storyteller should make sure that everyone in the coterie has a method of speaking fluently with everyone else. (In one of the playtests, for example, the members of the coterie only shared one language in common: Arabic. This was suspicious, to the say the least, but gave the coterie a big edge over other Cainites.) The Storyteller may instead assume that a character fluent in an European language may be somewhat familiar with other tongues in that language group. For the purposes of this chronicle, there are five main groups of East-ern European languages. (We apologize for this gross simplification, but it is much easier than making each language a separate Knowledge specializa-tion.)

The languages are:

•Slavonic:

Actually a collection of dialects, Slavonic is well on its way to-ward becoming the vernacular of Eastern Europe. West Slavonic is spoken inthe regions of Bohemia and Poland. East Slavonic is spoken in the wastes of Kievan Rus. South Slavonic is spoken in Bulgaria and Macedonia. A Slavonic-speaking character must select a specific dialect with which she is familiar, though each dialect may be understood by anyone familiar with any of the other Slavonic dialects on an Intelligence + Linguistics roll at a difficulty of 6. This inter-dialect translation is considered automatic if the character in question has an Intelligence + Linguistics Dice Pool of 6 or greater, naturally.

•Hungarian:
Hungarian, unsurprisingly, is spoken in Hungary, as it is the native tongue of the Magyar people.

•Romanian:
The language of what will one night become Romania, this tongue is currently spoken by inhabitants of eastern Hungary (specifically, those who live in the province of Pannonia)

•Baltic:
Like Slavonic, Baltic is actually an “umbrella” term for the polyglot tongues spoken in the regions of Lithuania and along the BalticSea. Several dialects exist, but for game purposes, it is easiest to treat them as a common language. An Intelligence + Linguistics roll (diffi-culty 5-7) may be required to comprehend spoken communication with someone from a different region than where the character learned Baltic.

•German:
Actually a Western language, German is spoken by the increasing influx of settlers, merchants and drifters from the Holy Roman Empire. As it is spoken more widely than the other tongues of the region (and even outside the region!), German makes an excellent lingua francs
for the Transylvania Chronicles

Under this system (which Storytellers of Western European chronicles may choose to overrule), French, Italian and Spanish all default to each other at a difficulty of 7. Likewise, Turk and Finn default to each other at a difficulty of 7. The language referred to as “Arabic” defaults to Kurdish, Armenian and Persian at difficulty of 7. Greek and Latin default to each other at a 7 difficulty. Oddly enough, Slavonic and Romanian default to each other at a difficulty of 8, even though they have different origins. In addition, most of the Tzimisce in this story share a variant of Romanian, referred to as “Vlach.” This is considered to be a somewhat archaic form of Romanian; any simple peasant fluent in Romanian overhearing it is at a difficulty 7 to understand it.If this system seems overly complex, go Hollywood: Simply supply the coterie with several ghouled translators and assume everyone canunderstand everyone else (for everyone’s sake, though, don’t kill them off), or assume that some sort of common pidgin exists. If, on the oth-er hand, you do choose to adapt these rules, there are a number of interesting story ideas that can result from miscommunication and false translation in the Transylvania Chronicles
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Forge

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Re: Languages
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2015, 06:30:36 pm »

Ok so to check my knowledge of the area:

To the far South is the byzantine empire - Greek is the main spoken language
To the immediate West is Hungary where they speak... Language Hungarian!
To the West of Hungary is the Holy Roman Empire (Germany) and they are sending every more ppl East. Language German!
To the North and East Are Lithuania and Kievan Rus. No Idea what they speak
To the South East are the Baltic states. Language simplified into regional Balkan.
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2015, 06:46:15 pm »

The Ventrue basically own the Holy Roman Empire, they would be the germans. It's said there that Tzimisce enjoy a variation of Romanian called Vlach (just knowing Romanian is good enough). Remember that Eastern Hungary is Transylvania, and thus the primary language spoken there is Romanian.

Kievan Rus is the name of a region in Lithuania dominated by the city of Kiev (which is also home to a very dangerous and generally hostile vampire's territory - the Butcher of Kiev, Darvag Grozny the Terrible). Language spoken there is Baltic and, in Kievan Rus, Slavonic.
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Bo

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Re: Languages
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 09:49:02 pm »

Time to adjust my languages accordingly!
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 07:40:56 am »

Aren't you glad I brought this up? XD

So, are you going by that optional rule it says, where it's assumed that we translate for each other, or is there going to be a lot of "only Bo knows what this guy is saying"?
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 12:03:23 pm »

Yep, Bo (and his ghoul) will be translating everything for you guys automatically. If you guys ever separate though, then i'll have to use your own languages.
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Bo

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Re: Languages
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 12:33:36 pm »

Aren't you glad I brought this up? XD
Oh my shit yes! I was going to be walking around with a completely useless knowledge of English XD. If my character wasn't French I'd get rid of that language too but as is it's kind of rediculous to have a French person who doesn't speak French.

Quote
Yep, Bo (and his ghoul) will be translating everything for you guys automatically. If you guys ever separate though, then i'll have to use your own languages.
How many languages do each of my ghouls speak? Aldric will be the one running errands the most often but Odi is Sylvian's personal bodyguard.
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2015, 12:35:07 pm »

Aldric speaks Greek, German, Romanian, Hungarian, Baltic, Turkish

Odi speaks German, Romanian, Hungarian, Baltic
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Bo

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Re: Languages
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 12:40:45 pm »

Well Fark, I've got some intelligent ghouls. I'll just bring Aldric with me instead of Odi to any important meetings.
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 12:52:17 pm »

Hey, Odi had 4 knowledge points to burn, he dumped them all in Languages and Medicine XD
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Bo

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Re: Languages
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 12:54:56 pm »

Yaaaaaaaaaaaas. I picked one intelligent mercenary XD
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 01:42:54 pm »

Oh my shit yes! I was going to be walking around with a completely useless knowledge of English XD. If my character wasn't French I'd get rid of that language too but as is it's kind of rediculous to have a French person who doesn't speak French.
How many languages do each of my ghouls speak? Aldric will be the one running errands the most often but Odi is Sylvian's personal bodyguard.

Actually. . .

Nah, the kingdom of france was established in 1180, so you can, technically, be french at this point.  Although they were mostly called Franks.

(We're actually almost at the period of Normans and Saxons and Robin Hood.)

Ok, fine:  Actually, if anything you speak Old French.  (till about 1300.)  Modern/Middle French is only the official language of France starting in 1536.  Before that, it was Latin.
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2015, 01:44:45 pm »

See: Rolling for different dialects.
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2015, 01:53:49 pm »

See: Rolling for different dialects.

French and Latin do not default to one another.
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Forge

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Re: Languages
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2015, 01:55:49 pm »

French and Latin do not default to one another.

The various French regionals will though including Catalans I assume. Latin is an awesome one though as so many European languages are based on it or highly influenced by it
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2015, 01:57:23 pm »

French and Latin do not default to one another.

Old French you said!
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2015, 02:01:37 pm »

I said if he speaks French it's Old French, not Modern.  However, the official language of "France" is Latin for the next several hundred years.

Also, you know that's a huge Farking leap, right?  XD

Old English does not even have the same letters as modern English.

II Gewat ða neosian, syþðan niht becom,
hean huses, hu hit Hring-Dene
æfter beorþege gebun hæfdon.
Fand þa ðær inne æþelinga gedriht
swefan æfter symble; sorge ne cuðon,

Are you telling me your fluency in Modern English gives you any idea what this says? XD
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2015, 02:03:47 pm »

It gives me as much knowledge as my knowledge of English gives me of German, which obviously makes me able to speak German as long as I succeed an intelligence+linguistics rolls.

Huh. Strange. I seem to keep on failing all my rolls... Oh well, i'm sure the characters will do better.
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Forge

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Re: Languages
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2015, 02:05:53 pm »

It gives me as much knowledge as my knowledge of English gives me of German, which obviously makes me able to speak German as long as I succeed an intelligence+linguistics rolls.

Huh. Strange. I seem to keep on failing all my rolls... Oh well, i'm sure the characters will do better.

Use a willpower right before your exams!
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2015, 04:11:34 pm »

It gives me as much knowledge as my knowledge of English gives me of German, which obviously makes me able to speak German as long as I succeed an intelligence+linguistics rolls.

Huh. Strange. I seem to keep on failing all my rolls... Oh well, i'm sure the characters will do better.

Well, you're only rolling 2+2 dice, right?
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2015, 04:17:36 pm »

That hurts Seth :'(
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2015, 04:33:01 pm »

That hurts Seth :'(

What?  I thought you were fluent in English and French?  So, 2 points in linguistics. Should it only have been 3 dice? XD

(Adam has a 2 for intelligence, you know.)
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2015, 04:34:29 pm »

Waaaaaaaait.  # of languages = points in linguistics.  So . . . knowing Japanese and German makes me more likely to understand Ancient Greek? XD

(Yeah, yeah, I could totally argue in favor of that. XD)
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2015, 04:49:21 pm »

1 + your points in linguistics, actually.
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2015, 11:22:58 am »

So. . . there's 4 different dialects of Slavonic that require Int+Ling diff 6 rolls to distinguish between them.

But French and Italian default to each other (Int+Ling diff 7?)

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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2015, 11:30:49 am »

Aldric speaks Greek, German, Romanian, Hungarian, Baltic, Turkish

Odi speaks German, Romanian, Hungarian, Baltic

What is the "default" language?  Romanian?
So, Slavonic can understand Romanian at diff 8,
Romanian is at diff 8 to understand Vlach, right?

So can Slavonic understand Vlach?  Does Lucien speak Vlach, since he's tzimisce?

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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2015, 11:33:04 am »

So, for my priest, he should probably know Latin (for the holy books), Slavonic, and ? (Got linguistics 3 to help out)
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Bo

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Re: Languages
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2015, 02:00:31 pm »

So, for my priest, he should probably know Latin (for the holy books), Slavonic, and ? (Got linguistics 3 to help out)
Drak just told me to get Latin so I'm sure it will com ein useful at one point
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2015, 02:11:41 pm »

Do you mean like, what would make sense for him to know, or what would be useful?

If you're a templar, you might know "Arabic," depending on where you served.  Also, a lot of the Templars were sort-of-French, so you might know whatever variant of French Bo's character is using.
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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2015, 02:17:51 pm »

Do you mean like, what would make sense for him to know, or what would be useful?

If you're a templar, you might know "Arabic," depending on where you served.  Also, a lot of the Templars were sort-of-French, so you might know whatever variant of French Bo's character is using.
Make sense. Probably take Arabic.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 02:20:45 pm by Aman »
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2015, 04:30:56 pm »

Make sense. Probably take Arabic.

Might take Spanish as well then.
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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2015, 04:31:51 pm »

Might take Spanish as well then.
Wait, could I get 4 languages with a 3 in linguistics, or 3?
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2015, 04:33:56 pm »

What is the "default" language?  Romanian?
So, Slavonic can understand Romanian at diff 8,
Romanian is at diff 8 to understand Vlach, right?

So can Slavonic understand Vlach?  Does Lucien speak Vlach, since he's tzimisce?

Varying based on which region you come from. Romanian is the one specifically spoken in Eastern Hungary.

Vlach IS romanian, just an archaic dialect. Lucien's default isn't Vlach, it's whatever language he was born speaking (which may or may not be Vlach). Difficult to understand Vlach if you speak Romanian is 7, not 8. Yeah, should work for Slavonic as well.
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2015, 04:34:42 pm »

Wait, could I get 4 languages with a 3 in linguistics, or 3?

You get 1 default, starting language + 1 for each point of linguistics.

You don't need a point of linguistics to be able to speak.
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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2015, 04:37:09 pm »

You get 1 default, starting language + 1 for each point of linguistics.

You don't need a point of linguistics to be able to speak.

Sweet. So, umm, Latin, French/Spanish (still debating), arabic, and Slavonic?
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Forge

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Re: Languages
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2015, 04:41:14 pm »

The 3rd point in linguistics gives you two extras
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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2015, 04:42:37 pm »

The 3rd point in linguistics gives you two extras
Drak just said three. (or 1/point of liguistics)
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2015, 04:46:00 pm »

Linguistics

It is assumed that you can speak your natural language, but you must purchase any other languages you wish your character to speak. For each level of Linguistics, your character may fluently speak another language. However, Linguistics also gives a character an understanding of the structure of language, which is in turn the basis of thought. With this Ability, you can identify accents. You also have a chance of figuring out phrases from languages related to the languages you know. For instance, you might be able to decipher some vulgar French (a Roman language) if you know Latin.

Note: you do not need to purchase this to speak Latin if you have Academics.

Specialties Include: Curse Words, Diplomatic, Political, Technical.

Possessed By: Diplomats, Interpreters, Scholars, Travelers.

Dots   Description
1   One additional language.
2   Two additional languages.
3   Three additional languages.
4   Four additional languages.
5   Five additional languages.
6   Eight additional languages.
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2015, 04:47:06 pm »

Sweet. So, umm, Latin, French/Spanish (still debating), arabic, and Slavonic?

French and Spanish default to each other.
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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2015, 04:49:22 pm »

Linguistics

It is assumed that you can speak your natural language, but you must purchase any other languages you wish your character to speak. For each level of Linguistics, your character may fluently speak another language. However, Linguistics also gives a character an understanding of the structure of language, which is in turn the basis of thought. With this Ability, you can identify accents. You also have a chance of figuring out phrases from languages related to the languages you know. For instance, you might be able to decipher some vulgar French (a Roman language) if you know Latin.

Note: you do not need to purchase this to speak Latin if you have Academics.

Specialties Include: Curse Words, Diplomatic, Political, Technical.

Possessed By: Diplomats, Interpreters, Scholars, Travelers.

Dots   Description
1   One additional language.
2   Two additional languages.
3   Three additional languages.
4   Four additional languages.
5   Five additional languages.
6   Eight additional languages.

So, I auto get Latin with my Academics (theology) skill?
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2015, 04:52:17 pm »

So, I auto get Latin with my Academics (theology) skill?

Of course not
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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2015, 04:52:50 pm »

Of course not
So confused. XD
Quote
Linguistics

It is assumed that you can speak your natural language, but you must purchase any other languages you wish your character to speak. For each level of Linguistics, your character may fluently speak another language. However, Linguistics also gives a character an understanding of the structure of language, which is in turn the basis of thought. With this Ability, you can identify accents. You also have a chance of figuring out phrases from languages related to the languages you know. For instance, you might be able to decipher some vulgar French (a Roman language) if you know Latin.

Note: you do not need to purchase this to speak Latin if you have Academics.
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2015, 04:56:12 pm »

So confused. XD

Foolish Aman, thinking I actually read what I posted beyond the stuff I needed.
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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2015, 04:57:13 pm »

Foolish Aman, thinking I actually read what I posted beyond the stuff I needed.

XD

So... y/n? XD
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2015, 04:57:46 pm »

Yeah, you have Latin.
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Not Aman

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Re: Languages
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2015, 04:58:02 pm »

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Forge

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Re: Languages
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2015, 07:12:24 pm »

That's an odd linguistics post. Everything I read says level 3 gives 2 lauguages


A character with no Linguistics Knowledge knows her native dialect and only her native dialect. Thus, a Mandarin-speaking character with no Linguistics Knowledge cannot speak Cantonese. One dot in Linguistics lets the character have a more or less fluent understanding of all dialects of a language. Thus, a Mandarin-speaking character with Linguistics 1 who purchased "Chinese" could speak Cantonese, Shanghainese and all other dialects fluently. (Yes, this is simplistic, to say the least, but for the purposes of a roleplaying game, a few short cuts must be taken.)
Also, the Linguistics Ability, as it stands, does not accurately reflect the actual aptitude of some talented individuals. People accustomed to dwelling in multicultural societies routinely learn several languages, though obviously not all tongues are known fluently. We recommend that, especially in Asian chronicles, the following rules supersede those in Vampire: The Masquerade.
Each dot in Linguistics doubles the character's "extra" language capacity. Thus:
●○○○○ One additional language
●●○○○ Two additional languages
●●●○○ Four additional languages
●●●●○ Eight additional languages
●●●●● 16 additional languages
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 07:16:48 pm by Forge »
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Drakilian

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Re: Languages
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2015, 07:53:51 pm »

Yeah, that's the modern version, Dark ages skills are different (and have the same effect in the end, since it allows you to lump in dialects, while modern linguistics doesn't).
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Sethaniel

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Re: Languages
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2015, 08:05:01 pm »

Yeah it does. It says "one dot in a language allows you to lump in all the dialects of the language."
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Bo

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Re: Languages
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2015, 06:14:38 pm »

Yeah, you have Latin.
Does this mean I get one additional language since Sylvian has a 3 in Academics?
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